>> from pacifica, this is "democracy now!" a major media scandal topples the head of the bbc over its handling of two reports on sex abuse. wrong implicating a politician in one, and killing a report on its own popular bbc host the late jimmy savile. >> good evening, ladies and gentleman. >> in his world, in some way, tele colluded with him as a child abuser because i now believe that is what he was. >> we will go to london for the latest. a new hbo documentary here at home on pedophilia and the catholic church. >> i was afraid to tell my mother because i did not think she would believe me.

she was a priest would never do something like that to children. i kept a secret. cox "mea maxima culpa: silence in the house of god" a new documentary by alex gibney, investigates how a charismatic priest in milwaukee abused more than 200 deaf children in a catholic boarding school under his control. then congress returns to tackle what they call the fiscal cliff. >> what has overwhelmed this debate is the idea we are broke, that we have no choice except to make these painful cuts that will affect pork, affect the elderly, affect all of us. what people did remember is that we are a rich country. risis is really an opportunity to harness our abundant resources in ways that will position us better for the future. >> we will speak with sarah anderson of the institute for policy studies about her new report, "the ceo campaign to 'fix' the debt: a trojan horse for massive corporate tax

breaks." all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president obama is holding the first of a series of meetings at the white house today on averting the so-called fiscal cliff of expiring tax cuts and automatic spending reductions set to take effect at the end of the year. under the terms of last year's debt deal, obama and senate democrats must agree on a deficit reduction package with house republicans or face automatic cuts that will likely contract the economy. labor groups including the heads of the afl-cio and seiu will sit down with obama today, followed by corporate ceo's on wednesday. the president has vowed to@ resist republican calls for extending tax cuts to the wealthiest americans, but has signaled he may compromise on reducing so-called entitlements

such as medicare and social security. speaking on msnbc, independent senator bernie sanders of vermont said the 2012 elections signaled a rejection of the republican agenda. >> the middle class of this country say, yes, we have to do deficit reduction but don't cut social security, don't cut medicare, don't cut medicaid. there are ways to balance the budget which is fair. they have to understand they lost and that the wishes of the majority of the people in this country prevail. >> will have on the so-called fiscal cliff talks later in the broadcast. the scandal that has brought down cia director david petraeus is down staring general john allen, the top u.s. commander in afghanistan. the pentagon says the fbi has uncovered thousands of potentially inappropriate emails between allen and jill kelley, the woman who complained of harassment from petraeus' lover, paula broadwell. her complaint to the fbi led to

the discovery of broadwell and petraeus's relationship, prompting his resignation on friday. allen succeeded petraeus in afghanistan last year. the pentagon says allen will remain the u.s. commander in afghanistan for now, but the plans to nominate him to become nato's supreme allied commander are on hold pending the outcome of an investigation. on monday night, fbi agents continued their probe by searching broadwell's north carolina home. as the obama administration faces turmoil with two top military leaders, reports are continuing to emerge of the potential makeup of its second term cabinet. according to the washington post, massachusetts senator and former presidential candidate john kerry has emerged as a potential candidate to become the next secretary of defense. a decorated veteran of the vietnam war, john kerry became known in the 1970's when he returned home from vietnam to call for u.s. withdrawal. the current u.s. ambassador to

the u.n., susan rice, is rumored to the top candidate to replace y clinton as secretary of state. rice was asked about her future plans on monday. >> i love my job here in the united nations. i always have. i always will. especially today. i look forward to serving as long as president obama would like to. >> the obama administration has announced it will likely decide in the coming weeks on the role of u.s. troops in afghanistan after a scheduled withdrawal in 2014. on monday, defense secretary leon panetta said although the majority of u.s. forces will return home, and unspecified number could stay behind to continue military operations. new government data shows the year-to-date time from january to october was the warmest ever recorded for the contiguous united states. according to the national climatic data center, the national temperature was 3.4 degrees fahrenheit higher than

the 20th century average, and more than one degree higher than the previous record for the first 10 months of the year. october's cooler to buttress ended a streak of 16 consecutive warmer than average months, but this year is still on pace to become the warmest ever recorded. the latest report follows a number of global warming benchmarks, including the warmest consecutive 12-month period, which ended in july. the u.s. is poised to become the biggest oil producer in the world within the next decade. the international energy agency says what they will pass -- as will pass on arabia with techniques such as fracking in horizontal drilling. much of the oil in question is tightly concealed and rock formations that may be blast with chemical laid in fluid and drilled in a horizontal lee as part of the extraction process. critics have raised concerns about how such forms of drilling will impact human health on the environment. president obama renewed his

commitment to "freeing ourselves from foreign oil" in his reelection victory speech last week. energy department data shows u.s. imports of crude had fallen 11% this year and the country is on track to produce the most oil since 1991. the syrian military continues to launch attacks on the border town, sending hundreds of civilians fleeing to neighboring turkey. the new bombings come days after more than 11,000 syrian civilians were forced out during strikes last week, one of the largest refugee flights of this year in conflict to date. speaking in geneva, the head of disaster in crisis management at the international federation of red cross and red crescent societies warned turkey needs major aid to handle the growing number of syrian refugees. >> we have seen a doubling of the camp population since july 2012, and i think as you have seen over the last few days, there has been an increase in

the number of syrians moving into turkey. they now recognize the situation is becoming prolonged. the initial thoughts the population might be displaced for shorter amount of time are now being reassessed and the government of turkey, along with its partners, are planning for the contingency of a longer- term assistance program. >> israel has launched new attacks on the gaza strip following palestinian calls for a cease-fire to end days of violence. israel struck in an uninhabited area of gaza three times overnight, hours after palestinian groups announced it would halt rocket fire on southern israel if the israeli military ceased the bombing. israeli officials have threatened to escalate military actions in gaza, raising fears of the worst violence since israel invaded gaza four years ago next month. on monday, the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said israel is free to use military force on gaza. >> for the rights of our people

to defend themselves, we will take whatever action is necessary to put a stop to this. this is not merely our right, it is also our duty. >> amidst fears of violence escalating in gaza, the israeli group peace now is warning of a major israeli settlement expansion in the west bank. according to the stock, the settlement of the itamar will be expanded fivefold to 6 1/75 homes. e news comes one week after israel announced the construction of more than 1200 settler homes in east jerusalem. as israel continues to build settlements, the u.s. is intensifying efforts to stop a palestinian effort for nonmember state recognition at the u.n.. the white house says president obama called palestinian president abbas on sunday in a bid to convince him to delay the move. the u.s. has been elected to a new term on the u.n. human

rights council, winning another three years. the obama administration has played an active role of the council after the bush administration refused to take part. on monday, u.n. ambassador susan rice said the u.s. is determined to reform the council, saying it's too biased against israel. >> the on it states is clearly of the the human -- the united states is clearly of the view there are many flaws and i highlighted many of them regarding israel. it is a body increasingly proving its by you and we been proud to contribute to some of what we think are the final moments of the human rights council approach to syria, sudan, its approach to the situation in libya with the commission of inquiry's. >> the human rights vote comes just as the united nations general assembly is set to approve its and a measure calling for into the u.s. embargo on cuba. the house is holding hearings today into the meningitis outbreak linked to steroid

injections that have caused 32 deaths and hundreds of illnesses across the u.s. in a new report, the house energy committee says the chief pharmacist at new england, counting center, the company behind the injections, stonewalled and even lied to regulators who had sought to force changes for a number of years. an offshoot of occupy wall street is holding a telethon this week for its campaign to purchase the debt of struggling u.s. households. according to its website, the group rolling to believe has already raised more than $100,000 toward its effort to buy up consumer debt a random, often for pennies on the dollar, and then cancel it so the bar wars don't have to repay. he sold out benefit concert is schedule thursday in new york city. arizona democrat kyrsten sinema has become the first openly bisexual persons elected to the u.s. congress. recent ballot counts showed the former state senator has defeated republican competitor

vernon parker avenue phoenix area congressional district. her election comes in the year that also sought a least five openly gay democrats objected to the house while wisconsin congressmember tammy baldwin became the first openly gay person elected to the senate. other firsts this year include the election of the first hindu congress member from hawaii's, along with tammy duckworth of illinois, is also one of the first female combat veterans elected to congress. those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we begin today with the media scandal engulfing the british broadcasting corporation, or bbc. the director general has resigned amidst mounting questions over the bbc's handling of two sex -- two child sex abuse reports. one of the bbc's flagship programs, newsnight, broadcast a report that wrongly implicated a politician in child sex abuse

scandals. after the report aired, the victims of a photograph of the politician and said he was not the man who abused him read in his resignation speech on saturday, former bbc director general george entwistle admitted the report reflected poor journalistic standards. >> and not of the fact the director general is also the editor-in-chief and ultimately responsible for all content, and in light of the unacceptable journalistic standards of the newsnight film broadcast on friday november 2, i decided the honorable thing to do is to step down from the post of director general. >> newsnight is also under scrutiny for failing to broadcast a report on child sex abuse allegations against the popular bbc personality jimmy savile, who is accused of abusing potentially hundreds of victims. on monday, head of news helen

boaden and her deputy stephen mitchell also stepped aside in wake of the scandal. the editor of the segment, peter rippon, said he axed the investigation because of lack of evidence. instead a series of tributes to jimmy savile were aired across the bbc paz radio and tv network last year after his death. >> here we go. good evening, ladies and gentlemen. welcome. >> he was a pop pioneer. among others. >> and a multimillion pound charity fundraiser. he made his buildup in the 1970's and fixed it forced thousands of kids dreams to come true. -- and fixed it for thousands of kids dreams to come true. for 60 years, jimmy savile as a part of our lives, a great british eccentric.

>> last month, nearly a year after his death, i.t. released a documentary called, "exposure: the other side of jimmy savile." this is sue thompson, a former bbc employee. >> i opened the door and walked in and savile sat in the chair with the right side of his body facing me, and there was a girl of about 14 with long brown hair who sat on his knee. he had his left arm up her skirt and he was kissing her, but what i distinctly remember, and that is the image that sticks in my mind, was the site as i open the door, he turned his head and was just his tongue sort of coming out of the mouth the stuck in my mind but it was that image. it was not just like a pack on

the cheek. it was a definite sexual advance to this girl. >> the widening bbc scandal also as implications on the other side of the atlantic hear the u.s. former bbc director general, mark thompson, is the incoming new york times company chief executive. he was at the helm of the bbc last year when the investigation into jimmy savile's alleged child sex abuse was dropped. thompson claims he was unaware of the program's investigation and had no involvement in the decision to cancel the report. for more we go to london where we're joined by lark turner via videostream. shias been researching and writing about the bbc scandal involving jimmy savile for the new york times, where she recently worked on the peace, "complaint ignored for decades is heard at last in bbc abuse case." the article profiles deborah cogger, a teenager in reform school where she says jimmy

savile molested her and others. we contacted the bbc for comment, but they did not respond by airtime 3 rasa joined by tim gopsill, longtime reporter who is editor of the free press magazine in london. he has written that much of the criticism directed at the bbc's handling of the scandal comes from conservative media outlets in britain who want to see the network dismantled and funded. and we're joined by donald findlater, a sexual abuse spokesperson for the lucy faithful foundation in britain. lay out the jimmy savile story and the overall -- we're talking about two sex scandals bringing down the leadership of the bbc. >> i have really focused on the savile aspect of the scandal thus far. what i can say is there has been an enormous scandal. you're talking about hundreds of people coming forth. most of them women, saying a

word used by him in schools and hospitals, and psychiatric facilities across the country. this is all coming to light now. >> tell us the story of the one woman that you profiled in the new york times who had been trying to come forward for decades. >> it is a really tragic story. debra said she was abused by jimmy savile at a reform school back in the 1970's and for @years, she said whenever she heard in mentioned in connection with sexual abuse, she tried calling up newspapers, tried getting her story out there and nobody wanted to speak with her. nobody was interested. i think this is somebody -- this has been extremely challenging for her to finally get her story out. >> explain what the situation was, why jimmy savile had anything to do with the school that's deborah cogger attended.

>> he had these longstanding relationships with different institutions across the country, including the school called the done crossed school for girls, which was a school for troubled teenaged girls also extremely intelligent. he would, i was cigars and crummy records he got the studio. it sounds like -- what the victims are saying now, and there are several who were at the school -- that he basically had free reign of the place. >> and yet she came forward and said then what was happening, but people told her to be quiet. >> she said she was told to be quiet. she sa that other girls who were abused, even more horrifically, were shot in a room in isolation until they recanted. -- were shut in a room in isolation until they recanted. >> i want to play a clip from

"exposure: the other side of jimmy savile." this is esther rantzen, coming to terms with savile's abuse. >> what i know about child abuse is it comes up to the child, the child takes responsibility and guilt. i say to these women, don't be angry with yourselves. it is the adult to blame. it is the adult world that created this mythical figure who is above criticism, who was above blame. of course, he wasn't. and i feel that we in television, in his world, in some way colluded with him as a child abuser, because i now believe that is what he was. >> that was bbc star esther rantzen. and savile's 1976 autobiography, "love is an uphill thing," he

described how he and another man has spent the night naked in a caravan with a group of girls, young enough for the mothers to come looking for them. savile wrote -- i went to bring tim gopsill into the conversation, editor of the free press magazine in london, your piec. the bbc not only to the investigation of savile, but it ended up doing all these laudatory programs about him. why is a defining the bbc? >> the one half of it did not know with the other half was doing. it is a big organization. as a broadcaster, it does not just cover news and current affairs, but a whole range of things like , entertainment, trauma, game shows.

it does a lot. it is a very, very big organization. the journalistic side is kept deliberately separate so it is not controlled by management, so that it does not have any lined laid down by anybody. it is kept at arm's length to guarantee it independence. while the newsnight program was preparing its exposé of savile, the other half of the bbc was going ahead with these trivia's. -- with these attributes. people are prepared [indiscernible] it looked really bad for them. the real problem was not telling the newsnight program, with the bbc did not do was run this tribute to a man who is widely known, is based in media circles, to be a terrible pedophile for years and years. >> at the time the news that investigation was axed, the bbc

possible chief executive, georg@ entwistle, was in charge of all television output. late last month, he told parliament he was informed about the news that investigation in early december by helen boaden, the senior executive for news. >> helen said to me, i want to tell you the less this is the best of my recollection -- i wanted to tell you newsnight is looking into savile or investigating jimmy savile and if it comes off, if it stands up, it may have an impact on your present schedule. i said, thank you for letting me know. please, update me read what i meant by that was, on whether or not it would be going ahead. >> [indiscernible] >> know, relatively rare. >> what series destined to

attach to what she said? >> i was grateful to her for giving me the heads up. but the key message i took away @ it was not yet clear to helen whether it was going to stand up or not, whether it was going to happen or not. >> that was the bbc chief executive george entwistle, who just resigned after what something like 54 days in his position. tim gopsill, your response? >> the bbc's response, unfortunately, when it comes under attack and does so quite of lot, is to go something of a panic. what they did after all the uproar of the savile programs, is a suspended the two people in charge of news of current affairs, that is stephen mitchell and helen boaden, from having any involvement in for the programs related to savile. the next thing that happened was

the newsnight program tried to cover for its mistake by killing the story in the past, found another pedophile story completely separate, which is one that has been known about off the record for some years, and they ran this program not naming but otherwise identifying a man who was a former conservative politician as a pedophile himself. that story quickly fell apart when it became clear it was not true, that it was not this man at all. by the way, that was uncovered by a british newspaper. probably the reason why the proper checks on the program were not made was precisely because the people in charge of news and current affairs had been suspended from having any involvement in the savile- related programs. the checks and balances to sit here. that is why -- >> explain how it was you think -- i mean, this doesn't recent

explosive -- >> mitchell was suspended pending the investigation into the savile program, suspended from having anything to do with any more programs related to savile or pedophilia. the program then made another completely different story, which was about this politician accused of pedophilia, and the proper checks were not t because they had been suspended. it got on air when it should not have been critics the way this unfolded was that the young man who was at the center of the allegations was never shown a photograph of this politician when he was, after it aired, he said, this is not the man who abused me? even worse, on top of that, the program makers did not contact the politicians themselves to even comment or tell him they were making the story. this is something -- it did

happen 20 years ago, obviously, with other people. they did not even check that it would have fallen down immediately. >> i want to go back to exurbs of the bbc's panorama special that revealed how newsnight journalists but disagreed with editor peter robin's decision to ax their investigation but as peter rippon's decision to ax their investigation. this is news that producer and reporter from bbc. >> [indiscernible] asked to get more people on camera, were told to stop working the story. the story was very clear cut. it was about jimmy savile, the pedophile and abusing his position, using his status as a charity fund-raiser and his personality to gain access to places where there were hon. teenage girls who he would abuse. >> we were sure the story would

come out and if it did, bbc would be accused of a cover-up. i rode an e-mail to peter saying, the story is strong enough. the danger of not running it is substantial damage to the bbc's reputation. >> that was used as a producer and reporter from bbc newsnight. lark turner, yet been researching this for quite some time read jimmy savile not only went after kids and schools are honoring him and have free rein in, but he went after people, young people within the bbc, t? >> allegedly. obviously, allegedly, he would take these girls that would go along with them the most from the school where deborah attended, then take him to his show and have them on the show so he woulthey would be in his

dressing room. that is how the bbc is implicated as far as that goes. >> i want to turn to coleen nolan, an english singer and television presenter. she was also the youngest member of a girl music group in which she saying alongside her sisters. coleen met jimmy savile during a top of the pops performance in 1979 when she is just 14 years old. she is now, forcing savile invited her to his hotel room, but her sisters stopped her from going. coleen also said that sabbai was "all over her." >> eccentric uncle. i was 14 when i met jimmy savile. @he was all over me. it was a bit like, i don't think i like it. but it is funny because then i could see my sister is glaring

at me. that is for family came into it. >> i want to bring donald findlater into the conversation, sexual abuse spokesperson for the lucy faith foundation in britain. your response to what is going on at the bbc right now and those who say, you know, it was a different time back then. >> i think is difficult to view these outrageous circumstances from the 1970's, 1980's with the eyes of the 1970's and 1980's. we look at them now and it is outrageous as to how savile and others got away with what they did and now so many children were abused and were not either able to say anything are believed as they did. just too many bystanders doing nothing to keep children safe. i do think things have changed a little, but i think, my experience of the last six weeks in the u.k., every day a new

exposé, new angles on what has gone on. i think the -- to get value out of that sustains sort of story simply because survivors in large numbers are coming through, survivor help lines, who've not been able to or have the confidence or courage to speak up before. i run a help line in the u.k., modeled on a u.s. stop it now sex abuse prevention hot line. we have 50% increase in calls in the last six weeks, not from survivors, but from members of the public's who are noticing things going on around them or remembering sexual abuse things are worries they had about possible abuse that maybe a year ago or five years ago they noticed and they did nothing then, and they're saying, i regret i did nothing, what i do now? in terms of the public dialogue about the problem, there's a

right now, i hope we start to learn some lessons -- some of those lessons ought to be the scale of the problem in the u.k., certainly in terms of sexually -- we no one in six children in the u.k. extensive sexual abuse. most politicians do not want to hear that. most members of police and social services don't want to know because there would be overwhelmed by the scale of the challenge of that kind of problem. the challenge we want to take a, a collection of charities the same, prime minister david cameron, you need to get ahold of this problem and recognize the scale of it. surely to goodness, the six weeks cannot have left unmoved. we do not want to mars children to suffer the harm that yesterday's children suffered. we know some lessons that will help keep children safe. they adjusted to be much more available. every parent's information,

which they have not had in the past. we have to have the public on our side, police and social workers during their job. it has to take politicians and the public working together to get ahead of this issue and make sure future generations are safer than past generations have been. >> tim gopsill of free press, how you feel this is being used in going after the bbc, though these are extremely scandalous, what has taken place here bbc is being circled by sharks all the time because it is such a big a popular organization, there are very jealous and went to get their hands on it themselves. whenever something like this happens, you get the commercial media, both print and other broadcasting in britain,

criticizing the bbc heavily because they want it weekend. they want it reduced so does that take up so much of the market. the also have a lot of support in government and parliament. the main people press, but there are other companies as well use the murdoch press, use and newspapers [indiscernible] all the time to try to weaken it. the bbc's to be much stronger in standing up to these attacks and supporters of the bbc, like ourselves, although the bbc is making terrible mistakes, is supported [indiscernible] the bbc needs more support to be better, not more attacks to make it worse. >> i want to teach you all for being with us, tim gopsill, editor of the free press magazine, lark turner, we will have a link to your piece at the new york times, writing on the

bbc scandal involving jimmy savile, her latest piece is called, "complaint ignored for decades is heard at last in bbc abuse case." thank you so much to donald findlater, a section of the spokesperson for the lucy faithful foundation in britain. when we come back, a new hbo documentary on pedophilia and the catholic church. it will be joined by the oscar award winning director alex gibney. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now from an evolving storage on sex abuse in britain, to a long-simmering case of pedophilia here in the united states that involves the catholic church. a new documentary by oscar- winning filmmaker alex gibney

investigates or charismatic priest in milwaukee abused more than 200 deaf children and a catholic boarding school under his control. the young students were molested again and again by father lawrence murphy, who stalked them in their dorm rooms at night, on trips to his rural cabin, and even in the confessional booth. this is a clip from, "mea maxima culpa: silence in the house of god." >> i was afraid to tell my mother because i did not think she would believe me. she would say, a priest would never do something like that to children. i kept it a secret. my mother had already been through so much pain. my brother had been electrocuted, my father had hung himself, by mother had been through so much pain and i did not want to hurt her. it was hard for me to

communicate with my father, so my dad would speak and father murphy would interpret. my father never wrote back and forth because he did not know how to write well, so i depended on father murphy and the nuns to communicate with my father. >> some of the courageous deaf men who later came forward to protect other children from father murphy and demand he be held accountable. they are the heroes of, "mea maxima culpa: silence in the house of god." the priest victims tried for more than 30 years to bring them to justice, but the film shows the church neither defrocked him or refer him for prosecution. it also uncovers documents from secret vatican archives that betray the pope as both responsible and helpless in the face of this abuse. for more on this incredible story of how these men stood up to the power of the catholic church, where drum of the film's director, alex gibney. his pastimes include "and ron:

the smartest guys in the room," and the academy award winning, "taxi to the dark side," which focuses on an innocent taxi driver in afghanistan who was tortured and killed at bagram air force base in 2002. "mea maxima culpa: silence in the house of god" opens this friday in theaters in new york and los angeles and will debut on hbo in february. it is great to have you here, alex gibney. this film opened at the london film festival as the scandal is unfolding at the bbc? >> the jimmy savile scandal. i was being asked all these questions because there were certain key similarities that had to do with how institution doesn't recognize what is going on inside of it. >> tell us about your found. >> father murphy was a priest in wisconsin who ran a school for the deaf.

he raised a ton of money for the school, an expert signer a much loved in the community. his role in the committee gave him access to his victims. he was a criminal, it is fair to say, and abuse over 200 deaf children at the st. john's school for the deaf. >> how did this happen? >> these kids were under his control. it was a boarding school. very often, it happened in the confessional. but ultimately became part of the church's aborted case into this. the church itself often refers to abuse in the confessional as a kind of soul murder, because you're taking kids who are so vulnerable and using that against them. in this case, by learning things about them -- for example, he learned which kids had parents who could not sign up themselves. then he would go after them because they literally cannot

communicate with their own parents and would often have to communicate through father murphy, who was the predator. >> i watched your fell last night. it is deeply moving. it is a story of courage. the descriptions of these now men, boys in the confessional, and father murphy would say, pull down your pants -- >> that's right. this guy was a predator. an absolute predator. it is haunting to see the images of these children who were so innocent, being so deeply abused by somebody in such a position of power. >> talk about how this case broke. >> the case broke only fairly recently, to some extent, because there was an article in "the new york times" talking about the lawrence murphy case,

which really took place back in the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's. murphy himself was forced out of milwaukee because of the threat of lawsuits, but there's never a prosecution, nor was there any kind of defrocking process until very much later in the 1990's. so we know about this case kind of in reverse, in part because of the courage of these deaf men who work so hard to see if they could get him defrocked and sue the church. as a result of the lawsuit, documents were uncovered that linked this case to the vatican and the vatican's cover-up. >> let's talk about the pope. >> one of the most interesting things about pope benedict, the current pope -- and there is a lot about him in the previous pope in this film -- before he was the pope, he was carnal rap singer and ran what was called the congregation of the faith, formally known as the

inquisition. after 2001, cardinal wright singer bought all sex abuse cases sent to his cases. he knows more about where all sex abuse in any human being on the planet. he then became pope. ithile he was cardinal that the case f murphy was brought to the congregation of the doctrine of the faith. interestingly enough, instead of moving quickly to defrock him, they took pity on the priest themselves who wrote a very poignant letters and, look, i am old and this was so long ago, i'm so started, please let me die as a priest. -- i'm so sorry, please let me die as a priest. that was granted by the vatican said it was no justice for the death victims. >> i want to read part of the vatican spokesperson's statement of father murphy --

>> that's right. there cannot be anything more horrific in terms of the abuse that father murphy was responsible for. but the staggering thing is, what these deaf heroes want it was justice,mentally, and frankly, wanted to protect other children. so far as we know, in 1974, three of these death victims mounted a public protest. as far as we can determine, is the first public protest against clerical sex abuse in the country. they were patient zero of this story. it took them so many years to actually have their voices heard, but it is their tenacity that is such an extraordinary part of the story. >> let me ask about a critique of the film made in the catholic world report's view of your film. the author notes you lament the

fact the catholic church never formally laicized or defrocked father murphy and argues -- "had the church laicized alex gibney, your response? >> i think that is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in my life. the id would i give some sort of fundamental justice and allow this guy to continue on as a priest, is a holy man who then further had access to other children -- after 1974, he was sent to boulder junction in wisconsin and prayed and other children up there. their ministerial restrictions on him, but his status as a priest continued to give him access and cover to be a

predator, so to say, well, we were able to control him and protect other children is laughable in the extreme. >> you talk about the chief fund-raiser for the catholic church, for the pope. >> you are referring now to -- yes, this is a fascinating story because it involves both pope benedict as the carnal and pope john paul. one of the most terrific of users, sex abusers, was a man who ran the region of christ and raised tremendous amounts of money for the church. as a result, he was given a pass by pope john paul -- even though it was brought to his attention over and over and over again that this guy was a notorious sex abuser proved just as john paul is dying, finally, the cardinal has an opportunity to pursue the case, which it wanted to do for a long time.

he sends a prosecutor to gather evidence and finds a tremendous amount of evidence, but does not continue the prosecution when he becomes pope. the sleeting that it is the institution itself that is problematic -- bess alluding that it is the institution itself that is problematic. >> this is not only a story of just horrific victimization, but of these young boys who become heroes. talk about how they take their victimization in their own hands when they get older. first of all, how do they learn from each other this is happening to other people? for example, then slapping murphy's face on hand drawn wanted posters. >> it was in the early 1970's when these kids left st. john's and got together and started hanging out with each other. ironically, ended up sort of

hanging out and smoking dope and within recall things, recall memories that have been repressed. they began to get more and more angry and that -- and began to share expenses with each other, then determined they needed to do something. their motivation was to try to protect other children. they went to the police and the police did not behave well at all in this story, it should be noted, nor did -- >> what did the police do? >> in one instance, the police went back to father murphy and asked about one of these accusations of abuse he said, you cannot listen to those kids, they are retarded. >> these children were deaf. >> that was another thing. in terms of the way the church, for a long time, regarded these children, was terribly unfortunate. archbishop cousins, who was in charge in 1974 when was finally removed from in a deposition, he

was asked, did you ever asked the children what had happened? he said, of course not. we did not do that. the guy in the deposition said, why not question he said, well, the children are desperate as if that was an explanation about why would not go to the victims. >> interestingly enough, the victims, the survivors, these leaflets, which in that time l'e not going to get that far doing this. what the need to do is go to the man in charge, the archbishop.of this horrible abuse, of course he will stop it. they had a meeting with archbishop cousins. two representatives of the vatican as well. they presented their case. father murphy was in the room. the archbishop, instead of acting without rage, dressed

them down and criticized them for bringing the repeat to the church. after all, father murphy had done so much good, why were these kids raining on his parade? it was a rather shocking exchange described by a number of them in the room who could not believe they came forward with all his courage and work to present this terrible case to protect other children, and they were told -- we're going to protect father murphy here and not fire him because he is doing so much good. >> the beauty of this film is these men are speaking in their own voices through their own hands, but do you feel the story of the catholic church has been fully told? at the global level? the story of the catholic church and preying on young people? >> i think what has not been properly told is the cover-up.

it is an ongoing global story. remarkably, the catholic church is not going to disgorge itself of documents relating to the sex abuse scandal, not only about the past, but to give us information about abusers in the present to protect other children. that story is not been told at all and that is part of what we intended to in this film. >> alex gibney, thank you for being with us for his latest film, "mea maxima culpa: silence in the house of god" is opening in new york and los angeles and will air on hbo in february. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. when we come back, congress is back in session. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

>> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we turn now to the national debt. as congress resumes its lame duck session today, the issue of tax cuts for the wealthiest americans has taken center stage in a political battle of the so- called fiscal cliff that could tip the country to an economic recession at the start of next year. some of the largest corporations and advocacy groups are lobbying for wide-ranging cuts in government spending, including

programs like medicare, medicaid, social security. the group, which includes 80 of the country's most powerful ceo's, is called a campaign to fix the debt. it was co-founded by former clinton white house chief of staff erskine bowles, and former republican senator alan simpson. they previously co-chair the@ bipartisan after commission on fiscal response ability and reform under president obama. co-founder erskine bowles warned of the dangers of the growing national debt. >> we have today over $1 trillion a year, that are like a cancer. over time, they're gone to destroy our country from within. >> critics have accused the group of using the budget crisis to push for corporate tax cuts. the institute for policy studies in washington, d.c. is publishing a report called "the ceo campaign to 'fix' the debt: a trojan horse for massive corporate tax breaks." for more, we're joined by sarah anderson.

welcome. what is happening today in washington, d.c.? >> what people and not talking about the pledge while people are not talking about the sex life of general petraeus, they're talking about the budget showdown. one of the debate is called the campaign "fix the debt." a dco's from america's art as corporations. they're doing a major blitz, to train themselves as the reasonable ones because they're caor both raising revenues and cutting spending. if you look at the details of their tax plan, you see they're really just the trojan horse. they're pushing for the same old tax breaks for corporations they have been doing so for about a decade. we looked at one of them, which is they want a permanent exemption from u.s. taxes for all of their foreign earnings. it calculated the companies in this campaign stand to gain a windfall of as much as $134 billion if they get this

corporate tax breaks through. people should be very wary of the big ad campaign about -- there are about to see in their newspapers across the country. this is just one more corporate attack on our taxation system. >> who are these ceo's? >> many household names -- honeywell, boeing, general electric. we have been documenting that many are serial tax dodgers are ready. they have been using shenanigans to shift overseas to lower their tax bill. we found that in 24 of these companies, they actually pay their ceo more last year than they paid to uncle sam. they have been lowering their tax bills already and want to continue doing that. they're taking it a band of the so-called fiscal cliff crisis to push that ahead.

>> i want to turn to recent comments made by john boehner who argued against any tax hikes as part of the deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. >> instead of raising tax rates on the american people, the damage it would do to our economy, let's start to solve the problem. this focus on tax reform, close special interest loopholes, and lower tax rates. instead of accepting arbitrary cuts that will endanger our national defense, let's get serious about shoring up the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our country's massive growing debt. >> sarah anderson, your response? >> it is crazy to be talking about, as he said, shoring up in time of programs. that is just washington speak for reducing the cost of these programs and limiting access. to think we need to shift the burden onto the backs of the poor and elderly is crazy, when we are in one of the richest countries -- the richest country in the world. our problem is our resources have been misallocated.

the approach to the debt should be to look at the ways that we could raise revenue through fair taxation, including tax and financial transactions, which could bring in wall street. no. 2, environmental reforms like cutting fossil fuel subsidies and using carbon taxes. three, cutting military spending, especially all of these military bases we have around the world that are obsolete. that kind of combination could raise trillions of dollars over the next decade. that is how we should be addressing the debt, not through these tax shenanigans that are just about giving more breaks to corporations and the wealthy, and cuts to social security and medicare. >> the organizing going on around -- for example, just the word "entitlements" that is used, it has become t describing medicare, social security. your thoughts? >> i have learned to call them earned benefit programs instead. these are programs american workers are paying into over

their lives. they have a right to that money, to have these basic social programs that have paid as a much stronger society with a stronger middle class. and to think that people are trying to use this situation to cut into those earned benefit programs, is just nuts. when there are some in other places we can get the revenue needed to deal with the situation and also to shift our economy in a way that makes it more equitable, green, and secure. >> sarah anderson, we will continue this conversation. thank you for being with us. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]

tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with thomas ricks. tonight, a conversation with thomas ricks.